There aren’t many actors I would say are great actors.
I’m not ranting. This isn’t like my music rant: it’s not like I think actors used to be good and now aren’t anymore. On the contrary, I feel today’s best actors are really much better than yesterday’s best actors. They’re much more subtle and realistic.
If you spread Hollywood out I think you’d find actors fall on a bell curve: ranging from terrible actors up to outstanding. On the far right, you’ve got atrocious actors like Paris Hilton and Jennifer Garner. Next, you have your low-grade actors – like Mark Ruffalo and Jennifer Lopez. That's followed by average actors like Julia Roberts and Denzel Washington.
On the “above average” slope it starts getting tougher. You have to compare. Is Russell Crowe better than Benicio Del Toro? Cate Blanchett or Tom Hanks? What about Ryan Gosling?
But at the top of the bell curve you have the crème de la crème—the greats. It's a small crowd. In fact, I can only think of a handful of living actors I’d put here. They are
Anthony Hopkins
Brad Pitt
Dustin Hoffman
Edward Norton
Adrian Brody
Why did this come up? Because I was considering adding someone else to the “great” list and it really surprised me. Leonardo DiCaprio.
Chrissa and I watched Blood Diamond last night. We stayed up until 1 a.m. and it was really good. Why does this surprise me? Because I don’t want to like Leo--he was in TITANIC!
But thing is...he’s really, really good! Leo played an ex-mercenary/diamond trader from Rhodesia. He nailed the accent and he nailed his character. He was venal and swarthy…not Jack-from-Titanic. And this is the third time Leo’s surprised me recently (first, The Aviator; then, The Departed...and now this).
Is he there yet? Not quite. He needs to take on a few more challenging roles. In fact, he needs a totally brilliant role: like Edward Norton in Primal Fear and The Score, Brad Pitt in Twelve Monkeys and Snatch. or Dustin Hoffman in Rainman, Midnight Cowboy and Papillon.
...But he’s young yet.
7 years ago
16 comments:
I'm a little offended that your list of "greats" didn't include any women. Not that I'm some nazi feminist.... I just think there are some comparable, if not better actors that are female.
Gwyneth Paltrow
Julianne Moore
Meryl Streep
Maggie Gyllenhall
Susan Surandon
Maggie Smith
You also forgot
Gary Oldman
Hand Azaria
John Kusiak
Christian Bale
...but that's just my opinion.
Try this J: What's Eating Gilbert Grape.
Leo has been at the top since the beginning of his career. And as much as you wanna "bag" on Titanic it is still the highest grossing film of all time, in all the world (though I never did see it since I was on a Mish and never got around to it after coming home).
To be a great they have to play both comedic and dramatic (the two polar extremes of acting imo. With this criteria I would add Robin Williams to your list, plus I agree with Chrissa about Gary Oldman.
I would agree with Meryl Streep, Gary Oldman, and (possibly) Gwyneth Paltrow. Another two I would agree with would be Judi Dench and Jodi Foster.
In my defense, it was late and I was trying to post. I thought about Gwyneth and Susan Sarandon at the time but decided that Susan Sarandon usually plays only one of two roles: snide/sarcastic or Mother Goose; and Gwyneth does accents really well, but also only plays two roles: tragic/quiet or tom boy.
As to the others you both talked about: most of them are either A) very versatile actors who have not had a role that I would consider OUTSTANDING (Julianne Moore, Hank Azaria, Christian Bale, Maggie Gyllenhaal) or B) actors who are very good at their one role (Maggie Smith, John Cusack).
Robin Williams is in a category all of his own. He's a very versatile actor (his better roles: Good Morning Vietnam, The Birdcage, Insomnia, Mrs. Doubtfire, Patch Adams, What Dreams May Come and Good Will Hunting) but has had so many terrible roles that it sours me on him. What's more: he often has this element of franticness...of desparation to be funny...and it reminds me of the class clown from elementary--the guy who had to make people like him through his humor--and instead of being funny it actually makes me a little sad.
I think he's had his moments of genius, but overall that's the feeling I get.
I've HEARD that Christian Bale's American Psycho and Maggie Gyllenhaal's Secretary are OUTSTANDING roles for them, but because of the content of the movies I shall never watch them. If I did, it might bump them into the "outstanding actors" category...but for now I can only surmise.
I'm not sure I would qualify the gross of the movies they appear in as a barometer of the actors' abilities, Rob. Titanic was a waste of time. Though I liked neither in that movie, I like both DiCaprio and Kate Winslet; indeed, if the latter's in a movie, it's usually something I'm interested in seeing. And Leo blew me away in The Departed.
I haven't seen Blood Diamond yet; it looked cheesy, Leo's accent made me laugh, and in the preview his character uttered a line which can only be described as ridiculous, paraphrased "In the U.S., it's 'bling bling,' here it's 'bling bang.'"
Christian Bale's been great since Empire of the Sun.
What about Johnny Depp? For such a pretty boy, he's turned in some good performances.
Yep. Johnny Depp has some incredible performances. And so has Ben Kinglsey, Michael Caine and Sean Penn...all not mentioned previously.
I have two thoughts here:
1 - Acting is an art and there's a lot of gray area, even in a single actor's repertoire. It's a fickle category ("Great actors") and probably a pretty fickle topic. Besides, it's entirely subjective and I'm sure all of you would have great arguments for why different actors are great and I'd probably agree with you. But that brings me to point #2.
2 - For me to elevate someone to the "great actor" status they have to be versatile, as we've discussed. In fact, that's the biggest factor. But they need something more: they either need a) one role that is so surprising and different that I'm stunned and think...brilliant! (ex. Meryl Streep in The Devil Wears Prada, Guy Pearce in Memento--only he doesn't have the versatility factor) or b) they need to take a role that purposefully trashes the one thing that makes them famous. For example, Tom Cruise has had some great roles but he has never really done a role where he's weak. I usually want all the range of emotions from an actor: despicable, likeable, funny, vulnerable, etc. Tom Cruise is a great actor, but he doesn't do vulnerable. And he doesn't do ugly. Look at Brad Pitt when he's absolutely psycho in Twelve Monkeys or with his face pulverized in Fight Club...that's ugly.
Judi Dench nad Meryl Streep for sure!
I thought of one more yesterday: Alfred Molina.
A co-worker asked me, "What about foreign actors--because it has to be tough acting in a foreign language." Somewhat facetious, but he's got a point.
There are a few foreign actors who I've felt are really incredible...(though I can actually only think of one right now: Juliette Binoche). But I think I was mostly just thinking of English-speaking actors when I started on this topic.
He then asked me about Jim Carey and lost all credibility...
But Jim Carey was fantastic in Eternal Sunshine. And he looks interesting in 23, though I haven't seen it. I think he might be able to jump on that list someday.
Speaking of Leonardo di Caprio and the whole "versatility/looking ugly" thing - Rob's comment about "What's Eating Gilbert Grape" is pretty valid. Ever seen it? Both he and Johnny Depp are quite good - but Leo is phenomenal. Of course, it was before the height of his fame -- I'd like to see him do the role now. Nevertheless...
I also might consider Kevin Spacey -- think The Usual Suspects, American Beauty, Shipping News, and Seven. Four entirely different roles.
And I would agree with adding Ben Kingsley -- he morfs into whatever role he's playing seamlessly.
Also...
Adrian Brody? For real?
By the way, J -- to your comment about Robin Williams frantic behavior... did you know he has bipolar disorder? It's pretty amazing that he's become a successful actor with such a tough disorder. However, this may be where your feeling of sadness comes when watching him in his humor.
I have to agree with J that this whole thing is quite objective. Where is the line demarcating the great from the merely very good? One man's Spacey is another man's Kutcher.
Nevertheless, it's been fun thinking about who I consider to be great actors, or even just good actors.
Jim Carrey was really good in Sunshine, but I can't call him great on the basis of one flick, no matter how good (and it's one of my favorites). He was also pretty good in The Truman Show and A Series of Unfortunate Events, so there's hope for him, but he's still got a way to go.
I'm surprised Tom Hanks hasn't come up, though: few actors could anchor Castaway.
Dan and I discussed this, and decided that some actors shouldn't have to be "versatile" in order to be good.
If you compare this "art" to any other kind - photography or painting or ceramic - you'll see my point. Some artists are versatile, while others have their "niche" - that one thing that they do so well that it draws you in.
Anthony Hopkins, for example, is not really that versatile. But there's no one who plays those roles like he can. Likewise Harrison Ford. While not incredible diverse in their roles, they have a likeableness, a "je ne se quois" where you just can't take your eyes off them. They make you like them -- or hate them. They make you believe that character. They make you feel. They have "presence".
Just something to think about when compiling your lists. It's been fun.
I decided that mine includes at least:
Tom Hanks
Dustin Hoffman
Robert DeNiro
Meryl Streep
Robin Williams*
Judi Dench
Kate Winslett
Kate Blanchett
Kevin Spacey*
Edward Norton
Morgan Freeman
Laurence Fishburn*
Hilary Swank
Harrison Ford*
Don Cheadle
* = have had great roles, but a few lesser ones that occasionally make me question them.
That's a great list! Yeah, after a couple of days of discussion I decided that it should have been my "outstanding actors" list and not my "great actors" list...
I also decided that the list should be expanded and that my five actors I listed were far too few. Especially when the more I thought about Tom Hanks and Harrison Ford, I felt like a jerk for not giving them credit. (Because I'm sure they felt bad for not being included on my blog.)
In discussing this with one of my friends at work, we started talking about our favorite Anthony Hopkin role, and decided that it wasn't Hannibal Lector. It was when he played the father in Legends of the Fall...it was amazing to see his transition from granite/strong/somewhat overbearing father to stroke patient/drooling on himself/weak...and then to strong and determined stroke victim. The guy who can still take someone out with a shotgun one-handed.
Thanks, everyone, for your input!
New topic tomorrow...
So I'm coming to this debate way late (catching up on blogs, yipes!).
I'm glad to see that people beat me to adding Gary Oldman and Kevin Spacey.
But how could you leave off Willem Defoe? That's a pretty serious transgression :)
Oh, and I forgot! Emma Thompson totally needs to be on that list too.
Alan Rickman is also worth considering.
That is all.
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